Women's topic 9-12-09

[Raziel]

"They had a typical free woman's misconception of what was involved in total female slavery. The slave is owned. She does not bargain. She owes all to the Master, and gives all to the Master. She strives to be fully pleasing, in all ways, and hopes desperately that she will prove so. Perhaps they would learn that sometime."
-Renegades of Gor, page 44

In regards to this quote, would Tuchuk FW be categorized the same?  What are your thoughts here?

[Amber]

No, they cannot be categorized the same, because Tuchuk slaves are more free with their submission than any other slaves, and we see that on a daily basis.

[Mercilayne]

From what I have seen and what I know (which isn't much yet) I would think that they would not be categorized the same.  Tuchuk FW have more freedom than most other women in Gor.  Because of that freedom, they would learn to be more observant  (isn't sure that's the right word I'm looking for, but it sounds right) and able to more recongize what is truly involved in slavery. 

[razz|n.o.i.r]

original quote...
"They had a typical free woman's misconception of what was involved in total female slavery. The slave is owned. She does not bargain. She owes all to the Master, and gives all to the Master. She strives to be fully pleasing, in all ways, and hopes desperately that she will prove so. Perhaps they would learn that sometime."

the fw's 'edited' version...
"They had a typical slaves misconception of what was involved in being a total free woman. The free is not owned. She is able to bargain. She owes all to her clan and camp, and gives all to her clan work, and camp. She strives to be fully capable, in all ways, and hopes that she will prove so. Perhaps they would learn that sometime."


The differences between the two factions of women? I have precieved to be very different. The similarity is they are all women. Who within their own rights do wish attention(and or praise), in some form or another. A free serves the camp within her clan duty's, and duty to camp. A slave does the same, in their own right, though on a different scale.

They could be similar, just on opposite ends of the scale. If that makes sense.

Though this is just my naieve opinion, I could be horribly wrong. With that said I would like to be corrected for my own misconceptions.

So my answer is yes, and no..

[Fishy!]

I dont think that FW of tuchuk could be catorgized in the same way, as amber said that the tuchuk slaves are more free in their submission I think too that the relationship between slaves and free is much different when in a camp...

when you look at a wagon camp women work, and damn well women work -hard- sure they may not walk around with a sword strapped to their hip but they work hard to make sure that the camp and their men [family as well] are cared for.

in a city im sure there would be alot of things that the regular FW would not do... would she do her own laundry? probably not... but in a tuchuk camp not only do fw do laundry if they must [even Shoko does laundry when she -has- to] but there would be a slave or two right there next to them doing it too.

"She owes all to the Master, and gives all to the Master."

if you look only at this portion of the quote and replace the word master with camp it would make sence regarding the FW of Tuchuk, their camp is their top priority, a woman works for not only herself and her family but for the camp as a whole, Tuchuks in General live and breathe camp and camp alone.

"There is no freer nor higher nor more beautiful woman," I said, "than the Gorean Free Companion. Compare her with your average wife of Earth."

"The Tuchuk women," said Elizabeth, "have a miserable lot."

"Few of them," I said, "would be regarded in the cities as a Free Companion."

---Nomads of Gor

I do believe that due to the fact that the Tuchuk women are hard working and the way that they live that they would be closer to slaves then the high polished city women, a city woman would not grovel so low as to do that sort of work.

[Medi]

You are right, Mistress...from what this girl has read and seen.   the Tuchuk Free Women work hard.  They are Healers, Painters, HerdMistresses, and much more.   this girl is very thankful for all that the Free Women of the Tuchuk do to keep us alive, and, whenever possible, You will see a little blonde barbarian doing her best to help You.

amanda

[Melanie]

*Decides to pipe in with the twisted thoughts of my own mind*....

"They had a typical free woman's misconception of what was involved in total female slavery. The slave is owned. She does not bargain. She owes all to the Master, and gives all to the Master. She strives to be fully pleasing, in all ways, and hopes desperately that she will prove so. Perhaps they would learn that sometime."

Here's how I see it. I believe they are one in the same. Sarant's reply is quite close to how I see it, but this is my twist to it. Free Women are just as much a slave to their home, to their family as a true female slave is to their owner. You all have stated pretty much that a FW works hard, dedicates, devotes herself, but not to one, to A/all, as would a female slave who devotes herself to exquisite beauty, and absolute obedience.

Where everyone says that the FW have a grander scale of such devotion, I see it on almost equal playing fields, for both FW and slave. Even if a slave is serving another, albeit food, drink, pleasure, chores, she does everything she can, everytime she is able, to please not only the Master's/Mistress' at whom she kneels at, but she sets an example for A/all, Free and slave alike, in her home, and not just her own Master. A weight that is a burden to carry, by anyone, and yet these girls do it with such a love, and a devotion, that nothing compares to their type of devotion, not even a FW, and that is why they are slave.

As for Free Women. I will not deny that we are hard workers, we love what we do, and we do get our hands dirty...*shows calloused, work-roughened hands*...We work hard not only to please others, but ourselves. And whether you believe it or not. FW ARE NOT allowed to bargain, perhaps amongst ourselves, We OWE all to our family, because let's face it, if we didn't have men to take us everywhere, we'd be in collars, or we'd be Panthers. We GIVE everything to our home, not just because it's required, or expected, but because we WANT to. And why do we strive to be fully pleasing in all ways, and why are we desperate to do so, as a FW? Anyone know the answer? If you don't, then this might scare you, it might shock you, it might frighten you...

You know why we do such? Because if we didn't, the Men would see if we give everything we have in COLLARS! Why do you think all FW fear the collars? Especially those of the Tuchuk? Because if we do not find freedom as a FW, then perhaps we will find it in the bitter-sweet shackles of slavery...and if it can't be found there, what good is that person? Good sleen food....WELCOME TO GOR!

So there you have it, my answer...We are one in the same, because MEN rule in this world, and the female's are Their's, one way, or another....

Melanie