FW Topic.. 1-21-06

[Vala]

Please read the quote and then please explain why FW would feel the need to manipulate FM...

She looked up at me in wonder, blood at her mouth. She had been cuffed.
"Did you strike me because I challenged your manhood?" she asked. "I did not really mean it. It is only that I was terribly angry. I did not think."
"You were not struck for such an absurd reason," I said. "You are, after all, a free woman, and free women are entitled to insult, and to attempt to demean and destroy men. It is one of their freedoms, unless men, of course, should decide to take it from them. You were struck, rather, because you were attempting to manipulate me."
Mercenaries of Gor - Page 422



Vala

[Amber]

Why do Women feel the need to manipulate Men?

Hmm, good question.  Why would a Woman, in a Man's world, feel the need to manipulate those which make the world run, which run the world in such an iron fist.  Women are given long, yet short leashes.  Women walk the lines between Freedom, and servitude.  Women speak their minds, stand for what they believe in, yet obey without question (or should) when a Man dictates to them what is right, and what is wrong. It is in a Woman's nature to manipulate, and they, without really thinking about it, could in fact, slip into manipulation without realization that they are doing it.  To get things done, when words alone are not doing the job, they may attempt to manipulate the men closest to them to get change to occur.

Just my two cents, and they probably don't make much sense at all.

[Geona]

Without seeing the context of this squabble between FW and FM .. It is hard for Me to know if She was just defending herself against some verbal confrontation or if she was truly trying to manipulate Him. With this in Mind, I now give My thoughts.

No matter what a FW says or Does, what she considers Her right as a FW,  She can and will be  held responsible for it. My father use to tell Me growing up" lifes not fair deal with it, the only rights You have are the ones I afford to give You" This is the life of a FW.. A FM can hear Your words, no matter how YOU as a FW meant them, and do as He pleases with them, no matter how You meant them He will react as He feels, He can ignore, He can respond, He can punish.. We as FW have the right to be as brass, defiant, loud, demanding, "manish" for lack of better word as we Like, it is Our right GIVEN to Us because they want to, not because a FM has to. She was struck because He was insulted and felt manipulated...We as Women have a natural way of manipulating as Sister Amber said, and sometimes its without even knowing. A look, a flounce, a pout, or even silence, all are ways WE do do to get what We want. Its all in the delivery of such things that a Man decides, am I being manipulated or is She simply being a Woman.  It is in delivery of Our words and actions that a Man exercises His right, to judge those words and actions and do as He pleases, because face it, Our rights, We earn from Man, they are not just given because We are free, We are free because He sees a reason to respect that Freedom and keep Us Free. IN this case, strictly going on the quote, the Man obviously seen a Reason to keep the Woman free, as a split lip was all that He chose to give her for Her actions.. thus .. He respected Her freedom, by allowing Her to stay Free but punished Her for Her own actions. In essence, He told Her, You have the rights afforded to You, but watch how You use them, because they can and will come back to bite You, because that is My right as a Man.

[Yahira]

I know this passage, and I suppose one could say that she was trying to manipulate, by gorean man standards.. 

Anyway..  People manipulate, whether it be intentional or not.  Women, however, are professionals at this.  Each one of us do it, whether it be over something small, or something enormous.  It's what we do by nature.  All people seek a certain amount of control, and women tend not to have the physical ability to take control from a man, unless he allows it.  This, of course, means that we find alternate ways to gain that, whether it be intentional or not. 

Women manipulate to get what we want from others, even when the others are not initially willing to give it to us.  We manipulate to get our way in certain situations.  We manipulate to make others see something "as it really is" because we, of COURSE, see it correctly.  We manipulate to maintain control, often doing it while allowing another to think that they have the control.  Women manipulate in order to bring others into a situation so that we don't have to face something unpleasant alone. 

While we may not all do all of these things, most of us are guilty of some.  Manipulation is a behavior, and like any other behavior, it only stops when the consequences are more unpleasant than whatever rewards one if obtaining.  As long as the woman involved is still obtaining rewards that outweigh the consequences, she will continue to manipulate.  In her mind, it is meeting a need that she has, and she is not seeing a simpler way of having that need met.

[Taryn]

~still thinking on this one, will answer when thoughts in her head work themselves out into something that might make some sense~

[Kitya]

We're female. It's in our contract to manipulate men.... *grin*

[Lady Snickers]

I will respond to this when My thoughts get clear and I return from dealing with stuff

[Amantha]

Women manipulate and need to manipulate because it is a Man's world.. Gor is controlled by the Men and that may not always be for the better. Until Men allow Women of Gor to be equal to them in actions, words, and status, then of course a Woman is going to use what whiles she has to get her way, sway the ways, or thinking of a Man.

 And don't think this manipulating is restricted to just the Free Women.  Every female slave knows how to manipulate just enough with a well placed smile, wiggle, complement, cleavage, in the hopes to get what they truely want. 

[Tiggie]

Is She is actually sucessful in the minipulation of this FM of Gor, a proposed True Gorian, then he was obviously NOT the Gorian that was being proclaimed Him.  If He was so easily manuvered by this Woman then somone in this situation was not in their rightful place.

It is not to say that We as FW should bite our tongues, nor should we speak with brassen ones either. There is always a time, a place, and a correct way in which to make your suggestions and concerns known to a FM of Gor. It is in OUR wisdom as Women that We know when, where, how and why to do this. It is that knowledge and practice, that allows Us to continue being called FW of Gor.  When we stoop to minipulation then we are no lower then the belly of an urt. Period. We as FW Of Gor are better then that.. and as Tuchuk Women just know how to speak to Our Brothers and Men in a way that They understand that We are not trying to force their hands but Strongly letting Our feelings and thoughts be known. *weg*

[Sati]

I was watching my niece last night with her father.. she is 1 1/2 very beautiful and she has manipulation down to an art form already, I was laughing at the way she works her dad and I told him...till the day she dies ! Her older Sister 2 1/2 teaches her what she needs to know without realizing she is a teacher , she replied to her dads command with a hmm mmm and he asked..who are you telling no and she replied I didnt say no I said hmm mmm and he gave her the command again and she said hmm mmm ..well I started laughing so hard I had to make up an excuse for my laughter so I didnt undermind his authority with her..I looked at the TV and said well isnt sponge bob too funny tonight.

The thing is, he was surrounded by 3 females it didnt matter our age , he was trapped and looking like he had had better days for sure. I find manipulation to be a varied form of art sometimes it offends but sometimes it settles with the said target just fine, it all depends on how well it is presented and if it is malicious, playful, or sincerely needy. Malicious manipulation has long ago left my portfolio but I still manipulate for attention or in times of playfulness and I see absolutely nothing wrong with it whatsoever, we must remember JN wrote books that came from his mind which means a Mans perfect ( in JN's mind ) world and in such , it is one mans view of how he would like the world to be or how it would amuse him best ..it certainly does not fit into the natural way women and men interact here on earth where we are real with real emotions.

Women need things men do not realize because they are so much more simple mentally, and Im not talking stupid Im saying their emotional structure is simple compared to a woman ..they do not need to be told they are loved 20 times a day to maintain a high self esteem, they do not need to have lengthy conversations devulging their entire past history to feel free from it, they do not need to receive gifts to know they are appreciated, they do not need to be told they are the object of our only desire daily to understand we dont want someone else, basically they need to eat, play, sleep, and fuck and they are happy, the less conversation involved with this the better. So women manipulate to get these things men do not need because trying to explain our reasons for needing them usually falls on deaf ears of confusion.

Face it we are totally different in emotional structure and in order to get what we need we cant just bark out an order and receive it, we have to toss some finesse into the equation IE: manipulation. it isnt neccassarily a bad thing, though it can be, and perhaps in JN's world it is all the time, but not here on earth.

I will continue to manipulate in my real world where getting my Husband to pay attention to me when I want it is very important to our continued happiness, but when I rp in this virtual place I will mind my thinking and try to steer clear of using the tool Ive honed to perfection over the years. That does not take away the solid fact He is the Man and what he wants is what he gets at all times, I just make sure he believes he wants what I want at times ! - winks -

[Karanis]

keys to manipulation are easy, you all are learning my secrets far to early..........

its easy.....I want this please because of this this and this, if you refuse it, I will keep asking you until you give in or get me something better.........same thing with a decision to be made........give the options and choose.........no belly wish washin around this or that..........

figure out what needs to be done and just do it.

ALWAYS MOVE FORWARD, NEVER MOVE BACK, YOU MAY STAY WHERE YOU ARE, BUT NEVER EVER MOVE BACK-THERE IS NO GIVE AND TAKE IN THE MOST BASICS OF LIFE....

YOU ARE.............OR YOU ARE NOT. find out which one suits you