sites of intrest

[dilshad{property of Tira}]

WOW... dakota never knew all this kwel stuff was down
here.. he thanks You Master

dakota is often asked about how he knows stuff
he studies the pages and does a lot of research
as well.. here are some sites of intrest

Good place to learn about skinning and tanning animals

http://www.manataka.org/page27.html

Basket weaving..a lot more interesting than it sounds !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basket_weaving

This is a gateway to many sites..Y/you have to dig around
to..but it's worth the effort

http://candleandsoap.about.com/

Bows and arrows

http://www.hornbow.com/

Everything Y/you wanted to know about arrows ..and a bit more

http://www.angelfire.com/magic/jawge/simplearrow.html

for those that want to get a flavor of the North

http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/poe/index.htm

All Y/you could ever want to know about Nomads..all three types!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomad

Rope making...really Hard work and complex!

http://www.rope-maker.com/makingrope.html

if you need a quick bath..try Soapwort

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soapwort

couch grass

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Couch_grass

mainly plants..very big on grasses

http://www.prairiesource.com/newsletters/94_sum01.htm

Wagons and stuff..very informative

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covered_wagon

boy will add to list as it finds more..and figures out how to make ropes

[kelsey]

our ropes are mostly leather.  Try and catch up with Master Bjorin as that is his clan.  I'm sure he can fill you in.

The rest of the site are interesting, however, just keep in mind that you need to make sure that what you are doing would follow the books.  Not everything we think we should be able to do is supported by the books.  JN was a bit quirky sometimes.

[dilshad{property of Tira}]

one thanks You Mistress.. but there are often blank
spots . and it is useful to research the possiblities

as for rope.. it is still pretty hard to make a large one
it seems.. it scares the hell of of him and he had never
tried it.. even with hair

one wishes You well, Mistress

[Taryn]

As for the covered wagons, those aren't what is used on Gor... I have a picture of what a Tuchuk wagon would look like here...



They are called Yurts, I don't have links to them, but you can google them and find out more about them, and it would explain why we can stuff so much and many people into them... though Dragonslair is three times the size of the wagon shown.. ~smiles~

[dilshad{property of Tira}]

thank You Mistress.. dakota has used them in several
av's and will have to remember to post the links
to repay Your kindness, Mistress

[Taryn]

you are most welcome dakota, and I have bookmarked a few of the links as well...

[dilshad{property of Tira}]

it seems that that the closest thing to Wagon Dome is a yurt
he has always wondered about how the supporting structure
worked.. the lattice around the walls.. and the ribs or spars
seem to make a lot of sense

http://www.flickr.com/photos/arwyn/160613833/

[dilshad{property of Tira}]

OMG!! charriot Yurts!!

is saving his hard candies up.. to get one..

humm races ?

[kelsey]

these are a good representation, however, in in depth discussion with RAGNAR, and the books, of course, we wouldn't have the railings you see on the pictures.....the sides are actually solid with slits that arrows can be shot from.

[RAGNAR]

Actually... allow me to be more specific in descriptions. I think some things were lost in translation.


The wagon platform.... square, thick, heavy duty over heavy duty axles and wheels... the rear wheels being a bit larger than the front wheels. Actual numbers are not specified... so I assume the wagon size will dictate how many may be found.

The square platform.. I believe does in fact have a railing around it. I call the back part my porch just to be more specific in role play what area I am using. In any case... the platform does have a railing and walkway around it.

Now we come to the shelter aspect. The yurt part as some here refer to it as. This is also a square... called a wagon box. Solid walls... arrow ports in the walls to release arrows from when needed for defense. For roleplay... we do tend to speak of windows in the wagons... which is not any great stretch. Simply imagine a cross used as an arrow port.... which are shuttered over an opening. Open the shuters and you have a window... close them and you have a cross to shoot from. Roll down a leather flap from inside or on the outside and it is closed to the weather. Simple and multi-functional. I think this is where I was unclear to Kelsey. We have the railing around the platform... but we have solid wood sides called the wagon box instead of the soft rounded yurt walls seen in the pics of this thread. I hope this clears that up. *S* The area between the railing and the wagon box is the walkway area of the platform used to store items, stack things, and use in general as needed.

Simple wagons are open inside. A great room richly decorated equal to the person's standing or position as well as the success of the raid. So what you have... is what you have. Trophies and such would hang from the walls... tapestries... furs on the floor... whatever. Knock yourselves out. Beds.... nope. Couches... yuppers. But for the sake of role play I don't call out people for beds as the couches and such may have many forms.

A firebowl... brazier burning dung for heat and cooking.... lamps for light.... a smoke hole in the top of the roof to allow smoke and such to escape. I believe this hole may be closed or opened using a basic shutter/flap method on a leather rope. Simple and basic. Picture it as a sort of flue. (sp?)

Do we actually have seats on which we ride when we migrate? Honestly.... I say no. We would poke and prod the bosk herding them to move pulling the wagons. I do not see where Tuchuks actually drove their wagons. But once again... I do tend to allow this for role play sake. Not to simply allow an onlinism to continue... but due to the fact of how the posts would come out after 14 to 21 days of migration role play of just walking and poking. So allowing reains and seats and such is done to enhance the role play.

My wagon is huge as per the books. Basically a moving building. I do have my inside divided off into various areas. Each area having a specific function and purpose. The walls used.... only some are planks. Most are simple frames or lines suspended using tapestries, furs, or hides, as dividers. They do NOT go clear to the roof. LOL

Even the council wagons may have an area divided for privacy etc... but most of the standardwagons are simply one room open area living quarters.

Remember... there is no need to crawl under the wagons. The platforms sit six feet off the ground. Most can walk under them or simply tilt their head a bit and navigate beneath them.

Now... the wheels....

I do not see spoked wagon wheels being much use here. Granted... some of the small wagons could be supported by them... but to navigate the plains in all the various weather conditions... I see our wheels as being more of a solid timber construction... very large in diameter... and very wide to prevent sinking and cutting into the ground as much under the weight.

Some of the wheels on my wagon, I portray and role play them as being 12 feet in diameter to allow the platform to sit six feet above the ground... and some of my rear wheels are up top two feet thick. No actual number of wheels is given in the books so that is just a matter of roleplay... but there are many given the size of my wagon. Thick leather wraps the wheels like tread bands... I can imagine heavy boilts used to keep the timber components together in conjuction with iron accurements, not entirely unlike those that can be found on Torvaldslander shields which hold them together.

I can offer more if specifics are asked. *S*

[Taryn]

As for the spoked wheels, I worked hard on covering those up, as I knew that I remembered something being explained in Nomads that they were solid wheels... As for the rest, now that I have a great picture in my head about what they looked like, I will work on making an image to reflect that, that way we could maybe have an example to show on the pages... because I have a pet peeve about people describing the wagons as if they were wagons of the Little House on the Prairie series.. though I will send you a copy of the image when I finish it, hey, it might be something I can do while I am waiting for net access... ~grins~

~heads off to pack some more for migration, slips back in to ask a question~

Do the wagons have wooden doors, or are they just flaps that are tied down to close off the inside of the wagon from the cold outside, or for privacy... I am not sure what sort of material would be used for the flaps, but the reason I ask this, is I see many using flaps as their doors and others slamming their doors shut...

[RAGNAR]

”The wagons of the Wagon Peoples are, in their hundreds and thousands, in their brilliant, variegated colors, a glorious sight. Surprisingly, the wagons are almost square, each the size of a large room. Each is drawn by a double team of bosk, four in a team, with each team linked to its wagon tongue, the tongues being joined by tem-wood crossbars. The axles of the wagon are also of tem-wood, which perhaps, because of its flexibility, joined with the general flatness of the Gorean plains, permits the width of the wagon.
“The wagon box, which stands six feet from the ground, is formed of black, lacquered planks of tem-wood. Inside the wagon box, which is square, there is fixed a rounded, tentlike frame, covered with the taut, painted, varnished hides of bosks. These hides are richly colored, and often worked with fantastic designs, each wagon competing with its neighbors’ to be the boldest and most exciting. The rounded frame is fixed somewhat within the square of the wagon box, so that a walkway, almost like a ship’s bridge, surrounds the frame. The sides of the wagon box, incidentally, are, here and there, perforated for arrow ports, for the small horn bow of the Wagon Peoples can be used to advantage not only from the back of a kaiila, but, like the crossbow, from such cramped quarters. One of the most striking features of these wagons is the wheels, which are huge, the back wheels having a diameter of ten feet; the front wheels are, like those of the Conestoga wagon, slightly smaller, in this case, about eight feet in diameter; the larger rear wheels are more difficult to mire; the smaller front wheels, nearer the pulling power of the bosk, permit a somewhat easier turning of the wagon. These wheels are carved wood, and like the wagon hides, are richly painted. Thick stripes of boskhide form the wheel rims, which are replaced three to four times a year. The wagon is guided by a series of eight straps, two for each of the four lead animals. Normally, however, the wagons are tied in tandem fashion, in numerous long columns, and only the lead animals are guided, the others simply following, thongs running from the rear of one wagon to the nose rings of the bosk following, sometimes as much as thirty yards behind, with the next wagon; also, too, a wagon is often guided by a woman or boy who walks beside the lead animals with a sharp stick.
“The interiors of the wagons, lashed shut, protected from the dust of the march, are often rich, marvelously carpeted and hung, filled with chests and silks, and booty from looted caravans, lit by hanging tharlarion oil lamps, the golden light of which falls on silken cushions, the ankle-deep, intricately wrought carpets. In the center of the wagon there is a small, shallow fire bowl, formed of copper, with a raised brass grating. Some cooking is done here, though the bowl is largely to furnish heat. The smoke escapes by a smoke hole in the dome of the tentlike frame, a hole which is shut when the wagons move.”

Nomads 30-31

I see it referred to as a door in the book. What exactly is used I will leave to the wagon's owner... be it a wooden door or a simple flap.
Check page 105 of Nomads where Kamchak is dealing with Aphris. *W*

[dilshad{property of Tira}]

thanks To All for all the info

the thing that excited this one about the picture of the Chariot Yurts
is..the front wheels.. one has always wondered about mechanics of
the wheels.. given the differences in heights.. how were the front ones
attached to the bed

in this pix a simple and elegant soulation is presented ALSO.. of the
structure of the front wheels is on a swiveling mount.. that would allow for
much greater control of the wagons steering (by reins or sharp sticks)

without some sort of moveable front wheels. it would take large distances
to turn the wagon.. not a problem. on the wide and open plains.. but
trying to park the wagons in camp formation, with out it.. wow.. it
might take having to start a pasang away.. to get is just so..

some questions, please.. what is the supporting structure of the
dome like?. beams, spars or ribs ?..can You actual stand on the dome
too work.. or does work have to be done without putting much weight
on it ?

also. the size is given for DRAGONSLAIR..and other wagons.. what
is the width and  lenght of the average wagon?

and.. in terms of the deck.. how is it made.. wide beams of temwood?
placks?.... running horizonal  or with the long axis? one has to think that they are nailed onto the understructure..
but are they also tongue in groove ? and glued.. this is a vexing
question.. as the bed not only. has to be strong.. but must have a certain
flexible for climbing grades.. like going up and down a river bank

if it was too ridgide.. the placks might stress or even pop
out under severe occasins.. or maybe they do.. and that's
just life on the plains

or.. does it not have flexible.. and all fordings.. regardless of the
depth of the water.. have to be made from an almost flat bank..
if so this would make for some intresting rp.. as the bosk might
ford in one place.. and the wagons in another..

he has a zillion questions more.. and deeply thanks the Ones
that have contributed to this thread.. That have sparked his
interest. and fired his imagination